this sums it up for me

[rone]

dennisperrin:

Like so many liberals, numerous reactionaries appear to believe that Obama's not a willing servant of capital and empire, but that he harbors a secret self, saying what he must in order to be elected.  Come Inauguration Day, the Real Obama emerges, which for liberals is a progressive patriot channeling FDR, and for right wingers, a treasonous surrendercrat, wiping Iranian and North Korean asses with Old Glory.

Comments

[roseembolism.livejournal.com]

I first read that as "Treasonous Thundercat" which would be all kinds of awesome.

But anyway, Obama definitely strikes me as a moderate. If he's a liberal, it's only by default, as the actual Left Wing in this country is completely marginalized.

[askesis.livejournal.com]

My hope is that the Real Obama is just a run-of-the-mill Democratic President. I don't think we need a savior; some basic competence will do just nicely.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Yes, well, it really is amazing how far the bar has been lowered in the last eight years (and i must remind everyone that we aren't out of the woods yet).

Nonetheless, i fully agree with you.

[roseembolism.livejournal.com]

Heck, we've got some people who are busily adding as many trees as they can to the wood!

One thing that's been pointed out is that whoever wins, with 700 Billion dollars added to the deficit, the actions the next president can undertake are going to be constrained. Obama will have problems getting his health care initiative enacted, and McCain will find it difficult to expand funding to the military.

I guess they're back to trying to destroy big government by destroying the economy.

[pennyhill.livejournal.com]

Oh - you left out "socialist." I've had a houseguest for days whose view of things is, er, rather different than mine. I've been hearing "socialist agenda" for nine days. bangs head on desk

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Socialist... like dear ol' Henry and Ben, and their efforts at nationalizing financial institutions.

[pennyhill.livejournal.com]

Yup. Just like that.

[askesis.livejournal.com]

Start charging your guest rent. Otherwise the shelter you're providing is nothing more than a handout.

[pennyhill.livejournal.com]

Gasp! Are you suggesting the free market isn't free????

[vampyrecat.livejournal.com]

Not only is it not free, the so-called free market is just another feudal system. Not really. I just wanted to say that. Don't mind me. These aren't the 'droids you're looking for. Move along.

[smashingstars.livejournal.com]

It's September, and this Perrin guy is dragging out talking points from before the July FISA vote? Not to mention the current criticism of Obama by supporters that he's not saying the right things about the economic crisis and he's not distancing himself enough from the Republican solution. The Savior Obama thing isn't playing anymore except with the types who always think their candidate will save the world. But you get those types in every election.

[mmcirvin.livejournal.com]

FDR was a willing servant of capital and empire. I know people thought he wasn't, but they were pretty stupid too.

To my mind, "liberal" means a moderate, not a leftist radical (see Phil Ochs, "Love Me, I'm A Liberal").

Personally, I'm more liberal than leftist, but I want there to be a viable harder left in America. I figure that if you think your own political ideology is more or less correct (and who doesn't?), but you also believe you're probably not right about everything, then in your ideal world you'd be somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum, with people pulling from both sides (and maybe from other political dimensions too) to help correct you and your fellow ideologues in case you're wrong. So as a liberal, I want the US to have some non-crazy conservatives, and I also want it to have some real leftists.

[blarglefiend.livejournal.com]

A lot of lefties in Australia thought Kevin Rudd was just saying what he had to say to get elected -- he basically set himself up to be as close to his opponent as possible -- but guess what? It turns out he really is a conservative.

I strongly recommend assuming that the guy is telling you what he thinks, not what he thinks you want to hear, and vote accordingly. If he was lying about this stuff then someone in his own party would've outed him by now.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

You had me until the last sentence. We're talking about the Democratic Party here.

[blarglefiend.livejournal.com]

You're seriously suggesting that they're so disciplined that there's nobody who wouldn't sabotage the candidate if they knew he was lying about being, say, centrist when he's really a Marxist?

I thought the Democratic Party was famous for shooting itself in the foot...

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Oh, certainly, but that sort of sabotage takes at least one of three things: balls, guts, a spine. It's not discipline; it's a sort of mild cowardice.

has mccain thrown the election?

[(Anonymous)]

John McCain, to the chagrin of his party, threw a gutterball when he selected that ridiculous creature from Alaska as his running mate. The Senator from Arizona who - for better or worse - can't tell a Baptist from a snake-handler, doesn't know what he has on his hands. Mayor Palin belongs to the "Dominionist" movement, a cult whose "support" for Israel is highly suspect (the Jews must be gathered in Israel for the Coming of Christ, who will then "perfect" them as Christians). We'd likewise be interested in her position vis-a-vis the infamous 13th forgery known as "Revelation 2:9." McCain's obvious ignorance of these matters has alienated a sizable portion of both the Orthodox and Reform Jewish communities. He had a clear opportunity to nominate the young congressman from Richmond, Eric Cantor, but chose instead to align himself with the sketchy Governor from Alaska, a lady who once tried to ban the teen classic "I Capture the Castle" from her local library. McCain's choice wasn't simply an insult to Jews, but to thoughtful Gentiles as well. Let's hope that he realizes his error before it's too late.

Cordially,
Matthew Anger

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

It's my opinion that it is exactly because of all of this that she was selected as McCain's running mate. In fact, in many ways, she was the best possible selection, and still is. Yes, she's a total Jesus freak, and all of the willful ignorance that entails. She's much younger than McCain, which she hasn't had that much time to accumulate baggage (in theory, anyway). She is a woman, and an attractive one as well (attractiveness always helps, but i'm not going as far as some of the moronic, misogynist VPILF people are). All these things help bring in many Republican voters who aren't fond of McCain.

As for your last sentence:
1) Republicans haven't been in the business of admitting mistakes for at least the last couple of decades.
2) Replacing Palin would cost them more votes than it would gain them.
3) Who the hell would replace her? The invisible Tom Ridge? Another neophyte governor like Pawlenty? Don't even suggest Jindal, a non-white Catholic, or Lieberman, a non-Republican Jew. The GOP would never vet those two. Eric Cantor? The GOP loves talking about and supporting Israel, but it's just lip service. They won't nominate a Jewish veep for a long, long time.

If you think the Palin choice was a gutterball and an insult, it is, but you're not the person whose vote they were hoping to court. God knows i was less than thrilled with the choice of Biden, but so what? I'm not thrilled with Obama, either. I'll look at my options and cast my vote accordingly. I stopped moaning about these things the day i threw up in my mouth after voting for Kerry.