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[personal profile] rone

From Bawls' page on guaraná:

The Guarana berry contains a naturally-occurring form of caffeine which is 2.5 times stronger than the caffeine found in coffee, tea, and soft drinks.

How is one form of caffeine 2.5 times stronger than another form of caffeine?

These are not the stimulants you are seeking...

Date: 2003-09-10 03:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eejitalmuppet.livejournal.com
How is one form of caffeine 2.5 times stronger than another form of caffeine?

That'd be because it isn't always caffeine. In tea, a lot of the "caffeine" is theophylline; in cocoa, it's mostly theobromine (rather poorly named, since it contains no bromine). They are all methylxanthines, which is why people usually say "caffeine".

As for the specific case of guarana, I am bereft of data. They may simply mean 2.5 times more caffeine (or other xanthines), or they may mean some other, stronger stimulant with a more tenuous connection to caffeine. Or the author of the page may be full of shite. :)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (evil)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
You are, as ever, my hero.

[livejournal.com profile] pobig and i were musing yesterday during lunch about our somewhat mixed envy of your chemical escapades.
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
According to that FAQ, there really isn't that much theophylline in tea; the active ingredient is mostly caffeine.

My guess is that they just mean there's 2.5 times as much caffeine, because that FAQ also seems to imply that (aside from the vague statement about an unknown other ingredient).
kodi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kodi
The most authoritative answer I've found on the web is the MSDS for caffeine, which considers guaranine a synonym. Not the most reliable source, but I'll take it over any page with "Rainforest Energy" in the title.

On which topic:
"The active constituent of guarana seed is not caffeine, but guaranine. The two stimulants ar similar in the laboratory, but authorities on xanthines make a clear distinction between caffeine and guaranra seed as to activity and body effects."

Before you get your hopes up and look at the page I grabbed that from - there's nothing else useful on the page.

Here's my personal favorite paragraph about just what guaranine is:
"Guarana contains a crystallizable principle called guaranine. It has the same chemical composition to caffeine, theine and cocaine, and the same physiological action, along with tannic acid, catechutannic acid starch, and a greenish fixed oil."

Cocaine: C17 H21 N1 O4
Caffeine: C8 H10 N4 O2

Unless I'm totally missing something, which is always a possibility.
From: [identity profile] eejitalmuppet.livejournal.com
"Guarana contains a crystallizable principle called guaranine. It has the same chemical composition to caffeine, theine and cocaine, and the same physiological action, along with tannic acid, catechutannic acid starch, and a greenish fixed oil."

Oh boy, that's a doozy. Presumably they have the same chemical composition on the basis that each contains carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen: on that basis, it's perfectly safe to drink methanol or ethylene glycol (good news for Russian vodka smugglers and Austian winemakers). As for physiological action, cocaine is a catecholamine uptake inhibitor, while xanthines are phosphodiesterase inhibitors (and adenosine antagonists). Perhaps the author of that page should be given caffeine as a local anaesthetic, in order to learn the difference...

As an aside, I found two structures for caffeine in my books. One, in "Heterocyclic Chemistry" by T L Gilchrist, matches the formula you gave. The other, in "Pharmacology" by H. P. Rang and M. M. Dale, shows a CH2 group instead of the carbonyl adjacent to the ring-fusing carbon (the "6" position for chemistry geeks). I'm inclined to trust the former, since I already know that Rang and Dale represent the wrong isomer for salbutamol (and there are two sources for the two-carbonyl formula).

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