rone: (Default)
[personal profile] rone

Never mind that you're too lame to switch to Firebird... there's some sort of vulnerability that allows malicious servers to steal your cookies. So fix it. Or switch. Or kill me.

Date: 2003-11-22 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solipsistnation.livejournal.com

I'd switch to Firebird, except that it, uh, sucks. [Insert lengthy rant about Mozilla here. You probably saw most of it during the inevitable flamewar when Apple picked KHTML rather than mozilla project code for Safari in the first place.] (It's still better than IE. Or full-scale Mozilla.)

Thanks for the patch. 8)

"...or kill me?" Are we having a Sub-Genius moment?

Date: 2003-11-22 06:37 pm (UTC)

Date: 2003-11-22 06:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
If you're gonna switch to a Mozilla-based browser on a Mac, Camino is the one, not Firebird. Firebird for Mac is getting better, but the problem is that the initial Mac ports of XUL were ragged and slow, so they dragged the performance down a bit, whereas Camino uses Mac interface elements.

Date: 2003-11-22 06:49 pm (UTC)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (evil)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
A-ha. For some reason i was laboring under the impression that they'd folded Chimera/Camino into the Firebird tree.

Date: 2003-11-22 07:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
The current problem with Camino is that the development is basically being done by one guy, Mike Pinkerton, who doesn't have a lot of time on his hands. So the last point release was some time ago, and to go beyond that you have to go to the nightlies, and he constantly bitches about people bitching at him on his blog.

The weird thing about Mac browser development is that all the good stuff is in some way the product of one guy, Dave Hyatt. Pinkerton is the inheritor of Camino from Hyatt after he got hired by Apple to work on Safari, and before he worked on Camino Hyatt wrote XUL, and somewhere in there he was instrumental in the beginning of what is now Firebird.

Date: 2003-11-23 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chicken-cem.livejournal.com
I agree -- Camino is still better than Firebird, although Firebird does improve with each release. I love Thunderbird for email, too. Launching each separately is way more reasonable than launching the full Mozilla suite.

I don't like Safari much, especially since its CSS, Unicode, and XML support are still behind what the Mozilla/Firebird/Camino people have to offer. But I will tolerate it over IE any day, of course. In fact, I have deleted IE on some of my machines. Cuz, ew.

Date: 2003-11-23 08:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
Lots of things about Safari irritate me (substandard TITLE attribute support, the oddball bookmark interface), but the thing that keeps bringing me back is that its tabs have little close widgets. For some reason that's become important to me. (However, the means of indicating the active tab is backwards and therefore bad-- it constantly trips me up when there are only two.) Safari also has marginally better UI performance than Camino to my eyes, but the difference is small these days.

Camino developed a cosmetic problem from the pointless change to the system tab widget that happened in Panther, but it still works fine.

Firebird keeps losing its scroll bars on me, especially when I mess with themes.

Date: 2003-11-23 11:29 am (UTC)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (evil)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
I tried themes for a while and Firebrid got all wonky. So i don't do that anymore. Themes are stupid, anyway.

Date: 2003-11-23 08:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
By the way, I think that while the Mozilla Gecko engine is still ahead in CSS and XML support, where Unicode is concerned, Safari's support (which I think is really OS X system-level code) and Gecko's are actually neck and neck right now. Each one falls down on some oddball cases that the other handles with grace, and they're both pretty good at handling the common usages.

It used to be that the OS X system support was only used by OmniWeb, and Apple was way ahead of the Mozilla team at the time, so that while OmniWeb barfed on every other Web standard in the universe, it was the unchallenged Unicode king. But Mozilla caught up.

Date: 2003-11-23 09:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
Oh, yeah, and Camino also has this one tiny bug that for some reason irritates me out of all proportion to its actual seriousness. If you start typing a URL and then select a site from the completion drop menu, and then after the page loads you press the down-arrow button, it reactivates the drop menu in a way that corrupts the text in the URL field: what ends up in it is a mangled combination of the text with and without the http:// prefix.

Last I checked Bugzilla, nobody else had bitched about this. I forgot my Bugzilla account password ages ago; maybe I ought to look into it...

Date: 2003-11-22 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] palecur.livejournal.com
People who insist on half-assed beta software when Opera is available make the baby Jesus cry. Wake me when these arrivist soi-disant 'browsers' correctly implement tabbed browsing.

Date: 2003-11-22 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
After several years of development, Opera for Mac is still alpha-quality. It barely runs, and the company clearly really doesn't want to support Macs any more.

A lot of things that claim to be "cross-platform" really aren't.

Date: 2003-11-22 08:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] palecur.livejournal.com
DAMN YOU FOR TAKING MY TROLLY DIGRESSION SERIOUSLY.

Also, 'LOL GET A REAL COMPUTER MR RAINBOW SUSPENDERS LOL'. Now where's rone with those pat mccurdy tapes?

Date: 2003-11-22 10:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
Shazbot!

Date: 2003-11-23 11:30 am (UTC)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (evil)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
I think i still have two that i want to give away. Do you want `em?

Date: 2003-11-23 03:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] palecur.livejournal.com
I'll trade you this mp3 of Pat Boone singing 'holy diver' by Dio.

Date: 2003-11-23 01:30 am (UTC)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (excitable)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
What is this "correctly implement tabbed browsing" crap you keep mewling about?

Also, Opera 6 sucked balls and they lost me at that point.

Date: 2003-11-23 03:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] palecur.livejournal.com
-If I have 10 tabs open, each at some arbitrary URL, and close the browser, next time I open the browser I want those tabs and those URLs present. Only Opera does this.
-If I want a new tab, I want a keyboard shortcut so I don't have to navigate through 18 drop-down right-click menus. if there's a keyboard shortcut for 'new tab' in Flaming Ostrich or whatever, it's news to me; god forbid it be something intuitive like ctrl+n. It's probably alt+shift+7 or something super genius like that.
-Open in background tab: as 'new tab' above. Last time I tried to use mozilla, getting things to open in a background tab was like pulling teeth. From a hen.

To sum up, your preferred software sucks.

Date: 2003-11-23 03:36 pm (UTC)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (quiet)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
I definitely miss that feature about Opera. You can fake it by saving all tabs as your home page, but that's cheesy. There's an extension that lets you save your tabs, too, but it has a bug where you are unable to close a tab. Lame.

New tab? Ctrl-T. T for tab, in case you need help figuring that out.

Open in background tab? Ctrl-Shift-Leftclick.

Date: 2003-11-24 08:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] omarius.livejournal.com
Something I've gotten addicted to (when using mozilla or netscape) is assigning the 3rd-button click function of the mouse wheel to open a new tab if you use it on a link.

There's my 2 cents in this $250 conversation.

Date: 2003-11-23 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
In Safari, Camino and Firebird, you can set things up so that "open in background tab" is command-click. You can also generally get it from the contextual menu (YES MACS DO SUPPORT TWO BUTTON MICE THANK YOU).

I never got used to Opera's persistent browsing sessions, but I can see why people would want them. Sam likes that a lot.

Date: 2003-11-23 06:42 pm (UTC)
kodi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kodi
Hm. How does Opera behave when you have two instances open, each with a full set of tabs? Does the last closed instance win?

As for "open in background tab," as soon as they implemented the "open in background tab" feature a year or so ago, I switched it to default to background opening and never looked back. So I don't have any idea when they made it possible to force that behavior with foreground opening as the default. (I'm happy to report that, should I ever need the behavior, ctrl-shift-leftclick actually does "open in a new tab in the way that is not my default," rather than forcing a background open.

Date: 2003-11-22 08:05 pm (UTC)
wednesday: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wednesday
Yeah, wake me up when I can run Firebird at greater than a snail's pace on a G3-400, will ya? Thanks.

Date: 2003-11-23 01:32 am (UTC)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (evil)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
What exactly do you run on that thing? OS 9 and IE 3.x? Here's a nickel, kid.

Date: 2003-11-23 08:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
On OS 9, IE5.whatever still rocks the house. It's got problems, but it's plenty good enough. The OS X port sucked, which was what gave others an opening.

Date: 2003-11-23 11:33 am (UTC)
wednesday: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wednesday
OSX 10.2.8 and Safari. Camino had some aggravating factors. Firebird's still too bloaty.

And I don't need a nickel. I need a fucking salary.

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