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Why the hell do people write "an historical" when nobody pronounces it "istorical"? Who the hell started this trend and why did it catch on?

Date: 2003-12-02 02:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jeff2001.livejournal.com
I don't know, but that's the pedantry of the masses for ya. As is a saying that always makes me cringe: "And the rest, as they say, is history." Nobody ever says "And the rest is history" anymore. The reference to the cliche has become the new cliche.

Date: 2003-12-02 02:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/
Because saying "ah" followed by "hi" is awkward.

Date: 2003-12-02 02:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] omarius.livejournal.com
I always figured it was an Anglicism. I grew up saying "a history" complete with the "huh" sound of the H. Not till I got to college did I note people saying/writing "an history"--silencing the "h."

Date: 2003-12-02 03:06 pm (UTC)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (excitable)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
Where? Where the hell is it awkward? On Planet STUPID? Do these people, when they want tuna sushi, ask for "ani" instead of "ahi" because it's AWKWARD to say "ahi"? Do this people say "an `istory book"? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE AND WHERE ARE THEY SO I MAY FIND THEM AND BEAT THEM?

Date: 2003-12-02 03:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ikkyu2.livejournal.com
¿Cuantos anos tiene Ud., señor?

Date: 2003-12-02 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wisn.livejournal.com
Calm down. It's a British pronunciation standard (where people say "an 'istory"). As for norms of speech elsewhere, chalk it up either to regionalism or pretense.

BBC announcers typically use, "An h-." I would link to the BBC Pronunciation Unit web page, but there isn't any. Here's a page of somebody who works there: Withersea: Catherine's page (http://web.onetel.net.uk/~marcandcie/cie/)

Date: 2003-12-02 03:57 pm (UTC)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (evil)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
I only have one anus.

Date: 2003-12-02 03:59 pm (UTC)
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (excitable)
From: [identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com
Hear them down in Soho Square
Dropping aitches everywhere,
Speaking English any way they like.
Henry Higgins died in vain. God damn it.

Date: 2003-12-02 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
This has become one of those "rules" that pedants use to torture the rest of us by insisting that the way that makes sense is wrong.

Date: 2003-12-02 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] therobbergirl.livejournal.com
Some regional accents do indeed pronounce it historical. Just as they are wrong for mispronouncing it, they are wrong to precede their crime with an.

The rule is that a/an depends on the initial sound. Here is what Richard Lederer and Richard Dowis have to say on the matter in Sleeping Dogs Don't Lay:

"The rule is that a is used with words that begin with vowel (a, e, i, o , u) sounds, an with consonant sounds. We have emphasized sounds because the initial sound, not the initial letter, determines whether to use a or an. When the aitch (h) is silent, as in honor and hour, use the article an. When the aitch is pronounced, as in house, hamburger, history, and historical, use the article a."

The Gregg Reference Manual makes similar comments without the brevity. I didn't check the Chicago Manual of Style because it is comprehensive without being definitive -- it provides justification for pretty much anything, even semicolon abuse. *shudder*

Date: 2003-12-02 07:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merde.livejournal.com
it's a pretentious new york intellectual thing. just like americans who say something like "euman" for "human".

makes me want to smack the shit out of 'em.

Date: 2003-12-02 07:57 pm (UTC)
jwgh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jwgh
I suppose it could prevent confusion in certain contexts. Maybe.

Date: 2003-12-02 09:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fredfred.livejournal.com
It's not pretentious, it's just dialect. One of my professors -- least pretentious guy you'll ever meet -- just said it that way. "yuman beings". He was from NY somewhere.

Date: 2003-12-02 11:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pootrootbeer.livejournal.com
Like the way surnames with the prefix "Mc-" are alphabetized by libraries as if they were spelled "M-A-C", or putting punctuation inside quote marks even if it isn't part of a "literal quote." Like that.

Date: 2003-12-02 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nothings.livejournal.com
Or maybe that's reaching... it's certainly not "an political gathering".

Date: 2003-12-03 03:16 am (UTC)
fanf: (photo)
From: [personal profile] fanf
You what? AFAICT it's an Americanism.

Date: 2003-12-03 03:17 am (UTC)
fanf: (photo)
From: [personal profile] fanf
and "erb"

Date: 2003-12-03 09:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] boymozart.livejournal.com
Pardon me for answering a question with a question, but now I need to know...do people say "an horrific"? Do they say "an heterosexual" or "an holiday" or "an handwritten"? Perhaps it's the letter I that comes after the letter H in the word "historical". But thieves don't run to "an hideout", do they? Is it because it's an adjective? No one says "an hideous", either, I don't think.

This is so confusing. It's enough to drive me into an hysterical fit.

Damn. I just re-read the subject, too.
--
11 Eb 0 Mak 12.19.10.14.12
9 Tun, 3 Winal, 8 K'in until the end of time and counting

Date: 2003-12-03 10:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] huaman.livejournal.com
And my personal favourite... espero que tu ano nuevo sea feliz.

Coming closer to on topic here, though, some years back I happened across this article in the journal Radiographics, dealing with imaging of a newborn infant with an imperforate anus.

"Wow," I thought to myself, "That puts that one aphorism in a new light -- 'opinions are like assholes: everybody has one... except that guy.'" Upon reading the article, of course, I did learn that he was surgically provided with one, but still. Born with no asshole. Surely this must mean something in the grand scheme of things.

Date: 2003-12-03 08:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tritone.livejournal.com
Uh, leaving h silent in "herb" is common dialect, not an affectation. It's the first pronunciation in American Heritage (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=herb), for example.

(Assuming you're referring to a plant, and not a person, of course.)

Date: 2003-12-03 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tritone.livejournal.com
As they say, "the rest, as they say, is an history".

Date: 2003-12-03 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tritone.livejournal.com
Hey, you got something against Planet STUPID?

Date: 2003-12-03 09:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] schwa242.livejournal.com
or putting punctuation inside quote marks even if it isn't part of a "literal quote."

That's one that has bugged me forever, until I decided to stop doing it, even though it isn't "proper". Also, "proper" should have been capitalized, but it wasn't, so thpttptptpt on grammar!

I do try to follow rules of grammar as best I can, though there are a few that I break intentionally.

-- Schwa ---

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