a time for wine

[rone]

ikkyu2 asked me if i could say something on the subject of wine; "your philosophy of wine, what you look for, what you try to avoid, what you particularly like about certain grapes or particular wineries or particular bottles of wine."  He also said i was "good at writing about wine," but that's too kind.  I like wine, and when i write about it, that enjoyment comes through; on a technical basis, however, i consider myself a hack at best because my wine vocabulary is still developing, and i have a very hard time finding words that can describe what i smell and taste in wine.

I should start out by saying that i didn't care for wine for a long time.  I'd had some wine (probably all from Chile) when i was in Ecuador, and i didn't dislike it, but i wasn't in a position to appreciate it, either.  When i came to the States, i mostly drank wretched mass-produced beer (and no wine that i can recall) until i turned 21.  Afterwards, i'd occasionally have wine when i was eating out with my family, but all i'd find was big, tannic cabernet sauvignons and buttery chardonnays.  So i shrugged and decided that wine wasn't for me.

Fast-forward to the time when i was dating Kim and she took me to Napa for the first time.  That was quite an eye opener.  After that, i became a pinot noir aficionado, i think because it's a lighter-bodied red wine that's low in tannins.  I also enjoyed Mondavi's Fumé Blanc, which is their fancy name for sauvignon blanc.

Later i developed an aversion to zinfandels because every zinfandel i had tasted like raisins.  Bonny Doon's Cardinal Zin broke the streak and soon i found that the most common wine in my rack was zinfandel and cabernet sauvignon.  Wait, when did i start liking cabernet sauvignon?  Well, i started finding some wineries that had CS that wasn't a punch in the mouth with every sip.

The first chardonnay i found that i liked was Thomas Fogerty's.  It's still rare for me to find a chardonnay i like, although the Santa Cruz Mountains wineries tend to make chardonnays in the style i prefer, with little-to-no oak and secondary malolactic fermentation (which yields that buttery taste).

If i were to have a philosophy on wine, it would be to seek out something different, like single-grape wines of varietals that usually end up in blends, such as Justin's petit verdot, which was excellent.  I also seek out rare grapes, such as valdiguié, charbono, blaufränkisch, and négrette.  Lastly, i'm a dessert wine slut.  Your average muscat is fun, but a great dessert wine is indescribably good; it makes all your endorphin flash bulbs pop in your head.

More later.

Comments

[ikkyu2.livejournal.com]

Thanks, this is interesting.

I'm dating someone who has got me into drinking a lot more red than I ordinarily do, and I'm (re-)discovering that it can trigger my migraines. However, it's pretty clear that not all reds do this, and also I like to try new things; so I'm trying to branch out.

I also like pinot noir a lot, and I'm wondering now if it's because it is low in tannins; a lot of websites identify tannin as the migraine trigger.

[nilasae.livejournal.com]

Wow, thanks for sharing! I'd really be interested in your opinion of the products of my favorite local winery Marko (http://www.weingut-marko.com)...

Mmmm, wine

[infrogmation.livejournal.com]

Chilean wines were also what was generally availible in Guatemala 25 years ago. My dad confirmed my memory that the average quality was usually poor. They've improved a lot since.

And in related New Orleans recovery news, yesterday I drove by the small Uptown Square mall in a nearby unflooded area to see if anything there had reopened yet, and the wine shop was not only open but had 5 bottles open for tasting. Yay.

[mrbalihai.livejournal.com]

my wine vocabulary is still developing, and i have a very hard time finding words that can describe what i smell and taste in wine.

Actually, I find the vinbonics aspect really off-putting to my enjoyment of wine because so much of it seems to be just a verbal form of snobbery designed to exclude the "common" people from participating. I view a lot of art and literary criticism the same way.

Besides, I can't taste anything but oak.

[some_other_dave]

Different single-grape varietals, dessert wines. Damn--too bad you missed the '99 Grignolino Port from Heitz Cellar. TJs had it, and I thought it was wonderful. It had nothing but fruit, but boy howdy did it have tons of yummy fruit!

[matrushkaka.livejournal.com]

Lastly, i'm a dessert wine slut.

I'm coming to SF tonight and staying a week. Come by the house; I'll give you a bottle of ice wine. We have about 5 that we brought from Canada.

[2wanda.livejournal.com]

Can I come too?

[matrushkaka.livejournal.com]

Yes! Dinner?

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

In fact, i have a bottle of their `03 grignolino port.

Hey, what's wrong with

[vardissakheli.livejournal.com]

a big, tannic, punch-in-the-mouth Cabernet? Though I do appreciate a nice, brittle Pinot as well.

If only I could figure out all those little companies that keep popping up to bottle Georgian wines. I never have a clue whether what I find will be more like a trip to or a sip from the Black Sea. The JSC Corporation wines that I took to Fat Bastard's house were decent but not great--the Khvanchkara was better than the dry ones, but I still haven't gotten around to opening the Kindzmarauli. (Since my wife doesn't drink, it takes me a while to find an occasion to open a bottle at home.)

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Yeah, i don't mean the vinbonics specifically, although having it would help. But i do find myself wishing for synæsthesia or something like that so i can at least pick a word to describe a flavor.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

I'll look around to see if anyone local carries their stuff.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

I think my mouth is very sensitive to tannins. It'll turn me off a wine fast, although if i can taste the rest of the wine through the pucker and it's good, i'll pick it up to lay it down.

Big wines are not for beginners, in my opinion. They won't pour you the big stuff first at a winery, after all.

also re Georgia

[vardissakheli.livejournal.com]

One Georgian variety that's found its way into the French palate via Russia is Rkatsiteli ("red shoot"--a confusing name for a white grape).

Also, I keep wondering where to find bottled the amber wines that Georgians call red (they call dark red wines black). I've only ever seen them in pitchers (not carafes!) on the table. Some of them seem to have been listed as "white" on the "Georgian Wine on Internet" site that went missing (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://sanet.ge/wine) sometime last year--including, in fact, the Rkatsiteli varietal, fermented in clay pots underground and matured in oak.

[some_other_dave]

Hmm, I wonder how the '03 compares to the '99? I was very disappointed in the '00, and the times that I tried more recent vintages up at the Heitz tasting room I was disappointed.

Then again, I really like my ports to be total fruit-bombs, with no caramel or raisin to them. And not a lot of other flavors (or rather, nothing strong) in the mix, come to think of it.

Prager had a white port a few years back that had huge overtones of buttered popcorn. It was the weirdest damn thing! (I think I still have a bottle of it. :) )

Maybe they're just for BIG beginners.

[vardissakheli.livejournal.com]

I first got started on the "hearty Burgundy" my (hypothyroidal) mom started drinking at her doctor's suggestion. Maybe big stomachs crave big flavors.

It was really funny coming home from Georgia the first time and then going to a party at a very refined friend's house who is into very subtle French wines. I took a gulp of something very dry, white, and gentle, and I honestly couldn't even taste it! It was just like a glass of air--walnuts, eyes in the back of the head, Danny Thomas, and all. I had to slow way, way down and start again before I could appreciate what a treasure I had in my hand.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Sounds like the Hugel riesling i bought at Costco some months ago. Bone dry, and almost nothing to taste.

vinbonics - the hunt for meaningful language.

[drieuxster.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is how to have a 'technical jargon' without all of the socio-cultural angst of being 'snobbish'. Having had the misfortune of someone else do the core wine buying, based upon the need of the meal to be served - I have not taken the time to worry about the language. But find myself now in need of a way to describe why I like foo over bar...

So much of the current vinionics just reeks of the worst of the 'californianized fruitBattery', except of course where it is openly fawning over the failed european Kultur....

So do we just dump the current pallet of terms and create a new one?

[(Anonymous)]

My local bourgie Italian place has an amazing dessert wine from the Friuli region of Italy -- I can't remember the name now, of course, because all I need to know when I'm there is "that Friuliani thing." But having had, and not much liked, German dessert wines, that one was a revelation.

I do like wines that are a punch in the mouth, as you might guess -- my house wine is a Cote du Rhone (Parallele '45) and I've found that when all else fails, I can always order a syrah. But there are some very nice Zins out there. You should also try the Italian primitivos, which are the Zinfandel grape but more delicate, I think, than California Zins. My favorite is the A Mano Primitivo, which is a perfect spring wine.

- Misha

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

I have had some primitivos and i've greatly enjoyed them. We actually harvested some primitivo grapes recently for the wine we're making. It's about 3 parts primitivo, 3 parts cabernet sauvignon, one part muscat d'Alexandria and one part charbono. Primitivo isn't exactly the same as zinfandel, but they're very closely related.

Another thing i've found is that big French wine is not the same as big Californian wine (or big Italian wine).

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is how to have a 'technical jargon' without all of the socio-cultural angst of being 'snobbish'.

Yeah, that's the problem with any subculture that develops a jargon. It's descriptive and exclusionary at the same time. I'm not sure that they can be separated.

So do we just dump the current pallet of terms and create a new one?

History will just repeat itself.

[drieuxster.livejournal.com]

Physck....

the upside of living with Andy and Ruth was that they tried real hard to teach me the language of wine - but at times it sounded way too much like a bad python - and I would start into 'too tinny....' But Andy knew how to talk to wine buyers - and what 'value' really was. I know that as we would shop at costco, and he would note which wines were a real buy... and which were, well, just not worth the effort....

Before I came to california I only knew the 'local wine' of where I was, and loved the bordeaux, and there wasn't a port I wouldn't try... there were also a lot of 'vino de bano' in some places.... Always found the french uppityNeff at a good german white wine sheer sillineff.... and then in california... Oye... Up here in northern california one doesn't run into the east coast 'effemete snootineff' of domestic v. imported... but this place is still too close to 'sideways' at times...

I still think there should be some sort of rosetta stone or something.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

I'd say the best thing to do is to take a trip to Paso Robles. There's a good variety and history there, but none of the Napa snootiness.

[drieuxster.livejournal.com]

I may have some time for such, once I find winter quarters.

Napa really isn't the problem - no more than any of the other districts of the area - as much as the j-random wackJob who wants to put on airs... as I say, having hung with andy this long, I know good stuff when it happens - and when the follks were merely being over-priced and austenatious. That's more the 'restraunt trendOids'...

Good Lord that is half way to LA.... tell me there aren't any Nuclear Mutants down in that area....
( ok, so I have ISSUES with everything south of the grapevine... Ok, so I also get worried about the I-5 corridor in the flat parts too... )

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Napa qua Napa isn't the problem, but there's a huge percentage of whackjobs there. And anyway, you'll be paying a premium for the wine there. You can find good stuff that isn't too expensive, but you gotta work for it. At PR, it's much easier, especially on the east side of US101 (for some reason).

No nuclear mutants, unless you count the college kids in SLO, half an hour down the road.

[drieuxster.livejournal.com]

I think you have a point there, it is the whackJobs wandering around being the UglyAmericans in the Napa area who have been the sort one really has that sad feeling that we do not allow folks to simply shoot them and put them out of their misery. And it is that snobbery that does drive the prices up - and at times runs out the decent wines - there was a 'old river curveee' that Andy found that was suppose to be the way that old school Napa White Wines had been like before they became popular and everyone made them way too sweet so that they would fit into the whole screw top wine fandom.... YEECH - but the old rivercurvee was well worth drinking - but it was stabbed in the back when some kabal of wine afficianado's decided to call it by the name that is popular with the screw top set... and the winery stopped releasing it...

{ extend the list of persons who should be shot so as to put them out of their missery... }

As for College Kids in SLO - that is closer to LA-LA-Land, and the Red Hollywood Elites...