how nerdy are dedicated fans?

[rone]

tongodeon created a poll that asks which TV/movie franchise is the nerdiest, using the "caliber of nerd associated with its dedicated fan base" as the metric.  I am not convinced that this is a helpful exercise.  First off, followers of a particular fandom will attempt to play down their own nerdiness in order to somehow legitimize what they're doing (look at the low Buffy score as proof).  Also, it is difficult to separate the nerds one knows that love a particular creation from one's own opinion of the creation, but more crucially, from one's opinion of such nerds.  For example, i react with intense aversion to the Rocky Horror Picture Show because, holy fuck, that is one goddamned stupid movie, and the subculture that arose around its festering dungheap is inexplicable, massively annoying, and ugly.  I think the Brunching Shuttlecocks' geek hierarchy is missing the RHPS fans below the erotic fanfic furries.  But i digress...

What makes a fandom nerdier than the other?  Well, what's nerdy behavior?  Obsessing about details in the canon, buying merchandise, attending conventions (in costume, for bonus nerd points), writing fan fiction... am i missing anything?  Is a fandom that lacks action figures, for example, less nerdy than one that has them?  (Can i stop asking questions in this paragraph and write an actual statement?)

ikkyu2 speaks truth in the comments: separate the fandom from the nerd and how much nerd do you have left?  It's a very open question.  And his point about needing to be quite a nerd to even attempt to gauge the question hits the nail right on the head.  OW LORD HELP ME THERE'S A BEAM IN MY EYE.

I can't even keep it simple by making something that's more mainstream less nerdy; the Simpsons and Harry Potter are two of the most mainstream items in the poll, but HP is, by almost any measure, much nerdier than the Simpsons.  What's nerdier, being a Vlad Taltos fan or a Wheel of Time fan?  OK, yeah, the Wheel of Time, duh.

Anyway, i revisited my "all 9s and a 10 for RHPS" vote and gave the Simpsons an 8.  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Comments

[mmcirvin.livejournal.com]

There is this unusual person on rec.arts.sf.written who goes on and on about how the ritualistic Rocky Horror Picture Show fandom has obscured us to the genius and profundity of the movie itself as a work of serious science fiction exploring important social and sexual themes. She also insists that the person credited as its author is a fraud and it was actually written by somebody else.

It's kind of a head-scratcher.

[glaucon.livejournal.com]

my ex-girlfriend said that it was one of the most heart-rending things she had ever seen and that she cried her eyes out.

the fact that she watched it alone on video while clinically insane may have been a contributing factor.

I do think that it's many good qualities as a musical and a film have been obscured by its annoying fans, but then, the same could be said of the Grateful Dead, the Roman Catholic Church, Burning Man, and...oh...I dunno...ferrets.

except as a band, a religion/social club, a social club/religion, and an animal rather than a musical or a film.

[omarius.livejournal.com]

"I do think that [The Rocky Horror Picture Show's]  many good qualities as a musical
and a film have been obscured by its annoying fans, but then, the same could be said
of the Grateful Dead, the Roman Catholic Church, Burning Man, and...oh...I dunno...
ferrets."
--C. M. Adams (glaucon @ livejournal)

just went in my quotes file.

It was only shown at midnight for a reason

[mouseworks.livejournal.com]

If you weren't tired, you might think about it.

[mskala.livejournal.com]

I know a guy who can't have a five-minute conversation without quoting from the Simpsons. As far as I can tell, he has memorized all the episodes ever broadcast. Granted he's an exception rather than the rule, but let it be known that there exists at least one extremely geeky Simpsons fan.

[tongodeon.livejournal.com]

I have a hard time coming up with any area of human activity where there isn't at least one nerd who can scores a 10 in that field. Not just as in an "every field has a champion", but as in "extreme competence combined with civilian-alienating dysfunction".

[opadit.livejournal.com]

I only half-joke that for every situation that one encounters in human existence, there's a Simpsons line or scenario that provides a metaphor for it. But it's been on forever and satires modern American life, so that's basically its job.

Myself, I probably say "D'oh!" several times a day, and I like to say, "I am so smart! S-M-R-T!" when I've solved a problem or successfully dug up some information. But more specific sorts of quotes, every five minutes is pretty extreme!

[schwa242.livejournal.com]

Yes, but has he started getting the appropriate (http://www.flickr.com/photos/schwa242/35719847/) tattoos (http://www.flickr.com/photos/schwa242/35719850/) from various episodes.

[therobbergirl.livejournal.com]

An additional problem in gauging the nerdiness is that not all of these works are current. For example, Babylon 5 is done and dead. Anyone still regularly go on and on about them is absolutely a nerd and possibly a dork cuz that's some mighty staying power to still be talking eight years after the end of the series and two years after the release of the final DVD set.

But The Simpsons is current. Not only is the show still in production, it's also in two times (or more) daily reruns.

Buffy fits somewhere in the middle of the two, being dead and done, but it's only been a year since the last Angel DVD set was released.

I'm not sure how to account for time in judging the nerdliness, but some I believe some sort of weighting is necessary for shows that someone has to make an effort to see (like The Prisoner).

[cheesetruck.livejournal.com]

My take:

If nerd isn't an insult anymore, which it is, and one that's as damaging as nigger, but if it's no longer an insult to the general public - then the 'acceptance' of the term does indicate that it should encompass 'fandom' and so forth.

Quite frankly, sports fans with long lists of stats who go on endlessly about them - same category. TV fans - same category.

As for Potter more 'nerdy' than the Simpsons, is this the 'annoying and useless' part of the insult, or the 'will you shut the fuck up, no one cares' part of the insult?

Anyway, I guess my real reaction is "I don't watch TV, and yet, I keep getting stuck in the same goddamn fucking insulting category as people who do, and somehow I'm lesser of a human being for it. Ya know what, y'all can just go to fucking hell."

[glaucon.livejournal.com]

If nerd isn't an insult anymore, which it is, and one that's as damaging as nigger,

that is a patently ludicrous statement.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Umm, nerd is a descriptive term, and can be used as a light insult, but as damaging as 'nigger'? Are you high? Sounds like you have some real baggage there.

[omarius.livejournal.com]

Only a Nazi would say something like that.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Nerd.

[omarius.livejournal.com]

Lutefisk.

[ikkyu2.livejournal.com]

Yes, there is a beam in my eye too.

Still, it is an amusing poll. I'm curious to see how it turns out.

I find this discussion nerdy.

[joepro.livejournal.com]

I liked the flowchart, but I would say "Trekkies who speak klingon" would be at the top of my list. I always think right to trekkies when I think nerdy. I was surprised the Simpsons ranked so high on the list.

[opadit.livejournal.com]

It seems to me that one helpful way to determine how to score each franchise's nerds is to think, well, how well does the average fan/nerd/enthusiast of this show function outside of a group of other fans? Are fans of this particular franchise more likely or less likely to live in their parents' basement than fans of another franchise? (I think I'm saying basically the same thing as ikkyu2.) Is the average Dr Who fan generally more functional than the average RHPS fan, for instance? khaosworks, for example, is a primary author of Wikipedia articles on Dr Who and he also happens to be a barrister in Singapore and has an advanced degree in American history from the University of Georgia. Is the average Prisoner fan more of less functional in daily living (holding a job, raising kids, paying bills, hygiene) than the average Buffy fan? Are they comparable?

[samantha2074.livejournal.com]

the Simpsons and Harry Potter are two of the most mainstream items in the poll, but HP is, by almost any measure, much nerdier than the Simpsons.

If I squinted at this the right way, I could say that in this case nerdier = lower cachet = more female-dominated. This is an over-simplification, however. For one thing, the Simpsons is made up of self-contained episodes played for comedy and this is inherently going to generate a different type of fandom than something with story and character arcs.

Even so, anything that's perceived as manly somehow gets a free pass. For example, sports fandom to me seems to me to encapsulate a lot of the same things as media fandoms: obsessive knowledge of facts related to the fandom, constant arguing over fine points and judgment calls, wearing team jerseys and painting yourself in team colors, going to lots of games, participating in fantasy leagues. But sports have cachet, so this behavior is considered less strange than writing fanfiction about your favorite TV show.

Why do you think Simpsons fandom is less nerdy than HP fandom? Is it that HP is considered more of a children's property? Fewer people are writing Simpsons fanfic and knitting Simpsons scarves? No one eagerly speculates about what might be in the next installment of the Simpsons? There's less wank? To be honest, I don't know much/anything about Simpsons fandom and have only peripheral knowledge of HP fandom.

I think one flaw in Tongodeon's post is that it measures like fandoms against each other. How can you tell whether X-Files fans or Buffy fans are nerdier when they're many of the same people? People I've encountered in Doctor Who fandom were active in or dabbled in fandoms on the list such as Buffy, Firefly, HP, LotR, X-Files, SG1, Red Dwarf, Futurama, Star Wars, Star Trek, B5. I'd say there's more overlap with SG1 fans than, say, Star Wars, but still a lot of people are into multiple fandoms doing the same kinds of fannish activities.

There's kind of a consensus style of modern fandom practiced these days, at least in the circles I move in. A lot of it is pairing-centered, especially slash-centered, which can get seriously aggravating at times. An example: someone in the Life on Mars fandom posted that she started watching the show because she saw a publicity photo where the two main characters looked slashy. And I just got way off point, didn't I? Sorry. I find fandom fascinating to examine, even when at times it annoys me. Just give me my meta-nerd badge now.

[deirdremoon.livejournal.com]

OW LORD HELP ME THERE'S A BEAM IN MY EYE.

OMGLOLBBQ. Yeah... I'm totally unqualified to speak on this issue.

[eejitalmuppet.livejournal.com]

It occurs to me that one measure of the nerdiness might be the number of people who would recognise a couple of well-known phrases from a given show, and how people react to people who use them. For example, nobody bats an eyelid when another person says "Doh!". On the other hand, most people would recognise certain words or phrases from the various forms of Star Trek ("Beam me up" "He's dead, Jim" and so forth), but they are more likely to provoke raised eyebrows or other reactions (over here). And then there are shows for which snatches of dialogue will simply lead to head-scratching by G. Public...

As I said in tongodeon's LJ, the poll also throws up some interesting geographical differences. For example, Blackadder was pretty mainstream over here (the 2nd, 3rd and 4th series had huge viewing figures, comparable in percentage terms to US figures for shows like Cheers or Friends), so variations on "I have a cunning plan" were instantly recognised by the general population (10 years ago at any rate; I'm not sure if that still holds true). It wasn't quite as widespread as, "Doh!" but that owes more to the limited circumstances in which it could be used.

And yeah, I know there are beams in my eye: whydya think I wear these glasses?

[schwa242.livejournal.com]

Is a fandom that lacks action figures, for example, less nerdy than one that has them? 

And what benchmark do you use when fandoms' toys start to co-mingle (http://www.starwars.com/collecting/news/hasbro/news20051107.html)?