rone: (Default)
entombed in the shrine of zeroes and ones ([personal profile] rone) wrote2003-03-25 12:00 am
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george w. bush, the johnny appleseed of freedom!

Via Warren Ellis's Die Puny Humans journal:

Opposition groups in Zimbabwe say that government security forces have arrested and beaten hundreds of people following last week's widely observed general strike.

I look forward to a new military operation that will free the oppressed Zimbabweans from their ruthless and cruel leader. Because, hey, that's what we're all about!

Not to end the thread...

[identity profile] veep.livejournal.com 2003-03-25 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
Mugabe noted in the speech that he had been compared to the former Nazi leader in the British press, and said he was ready to embrace such a role. (http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?ao=12422)

Call me Crazy.

[identity profile] jbroughton.livejournal.com 2003-03-25 02:55 am (UTC)(link)
Call me crazy, after reading that second link, and looking at issues in the Middle East right now. Since when did the US become god of every other country? Demanding that things go the US way or we haul ass and kill the motherfuckers? A couple of quotes from that last article had me spooked.

"The United States demands that the Zimbabwe government immediately cease its campaign of violent repression," Boucher said."
Who the fuck cares what other countries do? If the United states really gave a royal fuck about other countrys, what are they doing to help 3rd world countries? what are they doing to stop the sick and diseased and hungry in our own United States?? Instead Bush decides that he is god of every other country that is not part of the US and demands that they follow his rules and his beliefs or pay the ultimate penalty...
"President George Bush has frozen the assets of Mugabe and 76 other government officials, charging they have undermined democracy"

Call me crazy, but what gives the ruling power of one country to freeze the assets of another country when they believe that they are doing something immoral and against that ruling powers belief? When is it going to become Russia telling us we better destroy all of our nuclear weapons right now or they will freeze our assets? Or one of our trading countries tells us that we better destroy our weapons or stop our Police Brutality or they will no longer trade oil/whatever with our country?

Im not a political person, I don't understand politics and I don't try to. But when I see what is going on around the US and having the Pres use his powers to destroy other countries and control them, when he can't even control our homeless or unemployment problem, it just makes me sick.

Re: Call me Crazy.

[identity profile] blarglefiend.livejournal.com 2003-03-25 03:58 am (UTC)(link)
The Zimbabwe/Mugabe situation is, as always, complicated. The EU and the British Commonwealth have been on the case for a fair while now: the EU with sanctions against Mugabe and his henchmen personally, and the Commonwealth, well, it's turned into a white vs. black bunfight.

(Incidentally, it's really shown just how impotent the Commonwealth is, just in case anyone had any doubts about that. It claims to stand for a set of values, but when it comes down to it the African members are more concerned that they not criticize a fellow African than that they uphold those values.)

I honestly don't see the problem with a state deciding that the actions of another state are not acceptable to it, and then taking some action with respect to the relationships between those two states -- e.g., economic sanctions, political lobbying, and so on. Invading is a whole different ballgame, though.

It would be nice to see a little more consistency. Iraq and Zimbabwe are hardly the only brutal dictatorships on the planet. They're just ones whose current rulers are not economically valuable to anyone else. The real lesson is that if you want to be a nasty dictator, you'd best make yourself useful to whoever are the current great powers.
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (quiet)

[identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com 2003-03-25 11:03 am (UTC)(link)
Also, the North Korea lesson: get nukes fast so's the US won't fuck with you, but only shake its fist in impotent rage.

Re: Call me Crazy.

[identity profile] zadcat.livejournal.com 2003-03-25 06:43 am (UTC)(link)
>Since when did the US become god of every other country?

That's not really the point. To brutally simplify history, I think the whole thing goes back to World War II. Nazi abuses went on in Europe for years before the U.S. got into the war. Later the U.S. was criticized for not having interceded sooner. After that war, the U.S. got involved in a more ideological job: defending various regimes from "communism". Now that the Cold War is over, the U.S. has ended up with the job of the world's policeman. Not a badly paying job, obviously there are perks, but a messy one.

Re: Call me Crazy.

[identity profile] palecur.livejournal.com 2003-03-25 10:22 am (UTC)(link)
I always liked PJ O'Rourke's description of the role: A big mick flatfoot square in the middle of what every policeman dreads most, a 'domestic disturbance'.

But then, PJ O'Rourke owns.
ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (quiet)

[identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com 2003-03-25 10:47 am (UTC)(link)
"Since when did the US become god of every other country?"

I think that happened around 1899. The Spanish-American War... you could look it up.

Remember:
- Might makes right.
- He who has the gold makes the rules.
- I am a jelly donut.

[identity profile] nothings.livejournal.com 2003-03-25 11:38 am (UTC)(link)
NB: "Ich bin ein Berliner" has a fairly direct analogy in English, assuming you're in Denmark:

I am a Danish.

ext_8707: Taken in front of Carnegie Hall (excitable)

[identity profile] ronebofh.livejournal.com 2003-03-25 02:49 pm (UTC)(link)
YOU ARE A CHEESE PASTRY!